23 Nov 2015 20:47:07
NYK/Sac (after the 15th)
Cousins for Porzingis and Lopez
Porzingis is playing with a high ceiling and this could be a prelude for what is to come or there could be a drop. Sac takes a chance and they get two big men the fortify their front court while NYK gets a dangerous Melo/Cousins combo.
23 Nov 2015 23:08:50
Would be crazy (in a positive way) if that happened. I mean the situation with the Knicks is still the one that was expected after the draft, although they won some games now: Porzingis is, as a commentator recently put it, "ahead of his schedule, but still a project" and Carmelos peak may already be behind him. Even if they make the playoffs this year, how long will they be in them? Same thing next year. And when Porzingis finally reaches his peak, Carmelo may already see the horizon called career-end (unless he drank something of that Duncan stuff) . With the trade above this obviously all changes. But the biggest weakness still would be the PG-Spot for the Knicks. Wonder if they'd go for Rondo then too as Melo was/is allegedly favoring him. Also as Rondo's contract is expiring he may be a little easier to get, as he simply could be gone after the season. Would adding Calderon + Pick maybe even do it? Someone here wrote some weeks ago that the Knicks can't trade their 2017 first rounder? Why? On realgm they still own it.
24 Nov 2015 00:21:25
Knicks traded 2016. Can't do back to back. Knicks won't make this move. Porzingas is a third the price or less. Locked up for 4 years. A great teammate. And the team is really starting to gel. The Knicks aren't moving Melo or porzingis. They will build around them. Porzingis will lengthen Melos career because there is far less pressure to be he entire team. Additionally, porzingis will be a very attractive lure for free agents. He is turning out to be incredible.
24 Nov 2015 00:49:05
Good stuff pizza
24 Nov 2015 02:26:49
They can trade back to back if they've already drafted the player. They could even have traded the Porzingis pick at the draft, they just couldn't trade it before that.
Cousins is a beast, and from a talent standpoint Knicks win this deal. That said, I don't know that I want Cousins, don't think him and Melo fit together well, and I don't love his attitude either.
24 Nov 2015 07:00:57
Cpt - the reason they can't trade the 2017 is because in the past, a poor GM traded away all his future firsts in a failed attempt to win now. The NBA front office realized that this was terrible for a franchise, because when the team does bad, fans can't even say, "wait until next year" if they've traded away all their first rounders. The draft remains the NBA's best mechanism for parity. Anyway, that bad GM goes down in history, since future Collective Bargaining Agreements all now have "The Stepian Rule. "
Many people don't get this quite right, so let me state it clearly.
A team can't make a trade that would leave them without a first rounder in the next two drafts.
1. First note that this doesn't say "your" first rounders. If NYK could acquire a unprotected first rounder (a late one is probably the most realistic) for 2016 or 2017, then the Knicks could trade both the NYK 2016, and the NYK 2017.
2. Second, note that the rule covers the next two drafts. As Triangle points out, a team could trade their pick on draft night every single year, because on draft night the next two future drafts are the following two years. Also note that what you did the previous year doesn't matter at that point - it's all about the next two future drafts.
Anyway, I posted because I wanted to make sure that if you were learning it today, that you understood it without the common misconceptions it usually comes with.
24 Nov 2015 07:07:12
As for the trade, if the Knicks had a chance to get Cousins for Porzingas, you have to do that deal.
Porzingas has a good chance of becoming a star, no doubt. However, Cousins is undoubtedly already a star, and probably the best center in the NBA. Cousins just turned 25 - he's not old by any stretch of the imagination. But the main reason you do this is that franchises are built in franchise players. I don't like Cousins, but he is a franchise player, where Porzingas only may become one some day.
24 Nov 2015 12:45:56
Cool! Thanks Triangle and Shrink for the explanation about the Stepien Rule, didn't know that. Maybe a glossary here on this site would be useful, as I for example still don't understand everything about cap space. All the exception rules, has a team currently enough cap to sign a certain player, how much money can be send in cash (in a trade) and so on. All the info sites about it are like a punch to the face, like where do I start. And maybe a glossary here, also would prevent trade ideas like "Joe Johnson for Eric Gordon".
Back to the trade: I would agree with Pizza about building a team around them, if the age difference wouldn't be there. As nice as all that sounds, but by the time Porzingis becomes only 24, Melo already will be 35. And can you win a conference final, let alone a championship with this combination? I guess if the Knicks could get Cousins, at any price despite Melo, they also would. And if there'd be any chance to acquire Rondo (or Collison) within the trade too, that would be a total no-brainer I think. Btw, when Jackson was asked about Cousins 5 months ago, he said: “We don’t know if we have enough stuff to even be in the talk, but we’re aware of what’s going on. †Now they might have enough "stuff".
24 Nov 2015 19:18:22
1) Shrink writes the Stepien rule every week, you don't need a glossery, just scroll down
2) I was speaking in general, yes there are exceptions, but i answered cpt's question. But I guess thanks for showing exceptions to the rule, that really helps everyone.
3) You do NOT have to take that trade. There is basically zero chance that Cousins is a fit for the coach, the team, the scheme or the organization. Love Cousins' ability and talent. Love his age. Hate his attitude. Hate him as a teammate. He isn't someone I would want to build a franchise around. He is someone I would want to be a part of a franchise build.
4) addressing the age thing, Porzingis will likely extend Melo's career. By being a viable threat offensively and lightening the load and pressure on Melo, he can actually last longer. Melo isn't a driver. His game isn't based on athleticism. It is very realistic that Melo can be a top talent for 2-4 more years, enough time to allow for Porzingis to develop and bring in others that would want to play with the improving knicks.
Shrink, you literally wrote in one comment about how the knicks' "poor gm" threw away the future for win-now. and then go immediately after, well, if you have to throw away the future for win-now, you gotta! that's the exact thinking that ruined the knicks the past 3 years. The knicks have learned (hopefully) and they are developing their talent. The knicks are satisfied where they are and aren't dismantling their team for a potential bad apple.
24 Nov 2015 23:14:59
Pizza, you never cease to amuse me.
"You literally wrote one comment about how the Knicks poor GM. "
Lol! Ted Stepien was the GM for the Cavs.
AND you used the word "literally, " when you get it wrong!
Misreading is common for you, but I was "literally" amused by the irony here!
25 Nov 2015 05:34:06
You can trade your first round pick every year. No such rules says you cant. I don't know where that guy got that rule from lol
Raptors own knicks 1st round pick this year from brignani trade
And nuggets own raptors 1st round pick 2016 with option to switch for 2017 raptors 2nd round pick
Fair to say nuggets will take raptors first round pick this year
I hope knicks learn their lesson a never trade a 1st round pick away for anybody. 1st round picks are way to valuble especially when you suck.
25 Nov 2015 14:54:24
Actually the raptors get the less favorable pick between the Knicks and Denver. Those trades were before the new cba.