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Shrink's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Shrink's rumours posts

 

11 Sep 2020 12:24:43
The MIN-NYK-GSW option that Hollinger originally mentioned holds the most interest to me, because NYK a would pick Ball. Here's a new spin:

GSW GIVES: Wiggins, #2, 2021 MIN 1st, (Iguodala TPE)
GSW GETS: Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington, #8 (James Johnson)

NYK GIVES: #8, Mitchell Robinson, Randle, Ellington
NYK GETS: #1, #17, #33, Wiggins, Omari Spellman

MIN GIVES: #1, #17, #33, Spellman, (Johnson)
MIN GETS: #2, 2021 MIN 1st

Why for GSW? If they want to compete next year with contenders who spent their payroll better, they need to give up something to turn Wiggins into productive salary. Randle and Ellington provide some vets, while the star of the deal, Mitchell Robinson, learns on the job. Randle and Ellington are on partially guaranteed deals in 2022, so they may provide trade flexibility, along with the #8 pick, and James Johnson, who provides expiring salary matching trade fodder for acquiring one more good piece.

Why for NYK? They realize they need to add something significant to #8 to get the #1 pick, and between Barrett, Mitchell and their unprotected 2021 pick, they choose Mitchell. They expect Ball to make mistakes as a rookie, and moving Randle and Mitchell makes it likely their 2021 pick has a lot of value. The #1 pick guarantees they get their man - if MIN uses it on Ball themselves, or trades it to a team that does, NYK's plan falls apart. They add additional young prospects in #17, #33, and Spellman, who should get some minutes with Randle and Mitchell leaving, Wiggins is a tough pill the following two years, but Randle/Ellington/Mitchell cost that much next year. This is the rebuild mode (Ball, picks, keep the 2021 NYK pick)

Why for MIN? This seems like a no-brainer. It's doubtful (I think?) that they were picking Ball, so they get value from going to #1 to #2 without their player going off the draft board (even if it just to trade it). They give up three prospects to reclaim their 2021, which frees them from any Stepian issues if they want to use a pick for some future trade. This create roster space, the the TPE is more valuable to MIN than Johnson.

Shrink

1.) 11 Sep 2020 13:50:03
I think Minnesota should keep either pick 17 or 33, and get their 2021 2nd round pick pack.


2.) 11 Sep 2020 14:00:41
Love it.


3.) 11 Sep 2020 16:28:16
İt is very bad for gsw. They are getting more salary than they send. Wiggins is better than ellington randle Johnson combine. You can say he is overpayed but randle and Johnson are very overpayed too. The only piece that matter is Robinson and he is not good enough jump 6 spot in draft. And gsw send Minnesota pick too. Gsw won't give two very valuable pick to get worse player than Wiggins. They will trade them a star player or very good young player. Not for nyk crap.


4.) 11 Sep 2020 17:11:15
Hey shrinkdinky, I would not give up Robinson for Ball. horrible for NY.


5.) 11 Sep 2020 18:25:30
I don’t see any reason why the Warriors would do that. Robinson is no where close to being a defensive anchor on a good team and that Twolves pick is worth more than the 8th pick because of how the draft classes stack up.


6.) 11 Sep 2020 20:34:27
It shocks me that people are starting to say that Wiggins isn’t that bad a contract, now that he’s wearing a Warriors uniform. It would cost one of those two GSW picks just to get to neutral. Wiggins is guaranteed $29.5, $31.6, $33.6. With this amount of bad money on the books, you can’t equate him as simply a bad contract at the level of Randle ($18.9, $4 mil guaranteed the following year), or Ellington ($8 mil expiring) . Even combined, the Wiggins deal has $54 freakin’ more million attached!


7.) 11 Sep 2020 20:38:28
rkenne, regarding the drafts, I wrote this a few days ago elsewhere. It might give you some food for though on the valuation of any future pick.

———-

Incidentally, while everyone focuses on the predictions that the 2021 draft will be great, there are four factors that reduce the value of a pick from any future draft

1. Accuracy of Predicting. We are asking experts to project how high school kids will do in the NBA. As Texas Chuck pointed out, Shabazz Mohammed was predicted to be a sure fire star.

2. Predicting a Teams Final Record. Last year at this time, did anyone know GSW would have the worst record? Did anyone predict #2-5 would be only one win apart? Remember when we all though the Kings pick that BOS had was incredibly valuable?

3. Lottery. Even if you knew which high school prospects would be stars, and a magic genie told you the final standings, you would need another genie to tell you who wins the lottery. The top 4 selections usually contain the most likely players to become stars, so winning the new, flatter, lottery is critical.

4. Time. Having to wait for an asset reduces it’s value — and not just in banks. Using the Knicks example, they could start hyping LaMelo to fans tomorrow after a trade, and start selling merchandise and raising season ticket prices. Or they can say, “Please buy a poster of our lightly protected 2021 pick. ”

I am not trying to say that the value of the the top players in 2020 is always better than 2021. I am saying that people that have heard that the 2021 draft is better, and extrapolate that individual players in 2020 are not worth 2021 picks, are going too far, and neglecting several pretty significant factors.


8.) 11 Sep 2020 20:49:42
I like this deal for GSW because it helps them now, and also gives them help in the future, when their stars begin to age out. Right now, the Warriors don’t ask their center to do a lot, but Robinson can do enough already, I expect him to get much better over time, especially if the Warriors can get Draymond in his ear early.

The Warriors have always treated the center position as a cheap throw away, and it’s worked for them, paying talent at the other positions. I like Mitchell because they still get to be cheap, get good enough production now (rather than a true rookie with the #2), and also get to use those minutes for access to young upside.


9.) 11 Sep 2020 21:06:28
Last thing - I’ve gone on too long - but the real question for me isn’t GSW, it’s NYK.

With all respect to shizzee, whether he would trade Robinson for Ball doesn’t concern me; whether Leon Rose would make the trade does. A few weeks ago, we heard rumors that Rose and Ball had mutual interest. Ball makes a splash for him as the new GM, sells tickets and merchandise. Wiggins changed agents last December to CAA, Rose’s agency. And of course, Thibs was his client as well before he hired him.

I am not a fan of Thibs screaming at kids and antiquated systems, I’m not sure they will work with the modern nba and modern players. But I give him credit for the way he tried to handle Wiggins. He had seen Wiggins wander through seasons, scoring a lot of points, but Statistically having a very net negative affect on his teams. Thibs tried to engage him the first year by giving him the ball (point-Wiggins), and the next season, he tried making him the third option, hoping Jimmy Butler would inspire him. Neither worked, and some of that blame has to be on Wiggins.

Anyway, if Leon Rose is interested in Wiggins, maybe over Thibs reservations, he still needs to come up with a way to get the #6 up to the #1. LaMelo’s floor may be low, but his ceiling is high, and the nba runs on stars, not Mitchell Robinson’s or #6 picks. I think he’d have three choices to get there: Barrett, Robinson, or a future NYK pick. If he’s putting the ball in Ball’s hands as a rookie, I think he keeps the pick, and keeps Barrett over Robinson, to take a shot at a star.


10.) 11 Sep 2020 21:15:56
I want to see Wiggins play in an GS jersey before they give up that package.
Minny was the wrong team for him, i want to see him play wit Klay and Steph. If it fails the GS run is over and they better keep the draft picks.

They should only trade Wiggins and the picks for a star player.


11.) 11 Sep 2020 23:12:46
Shrink, I don’t think the Warriors are getting much win now talent. I don’t like Wiggins and think he has negative value, but he’s better than Randle and Ellington and he sort of fits with what they need a bit.

As for the draft stuff, I’m not speculating on thinking next years Minnesota pick is work more. A handful of credible media members have said that’s what they’re being told.

The warriors are giving up 2 legitimate assets, getting 2 assets back that are slightly worse and probably getting worse as a basketball team in this deal.

More than that they’re giving up a ton of their roster flexibility with the picks and Wiggins contract going out the door.

There will be moves available that will actually help them.


12.) 11 Sep 2020 23:46:16
You are saying that Wiggins has 92 million on his contract. But gsw getting 45 million salary with this trade and randle has one more year on his contract. Gsw is tax paying team. Gsw takes 17 million more salary. İt affects 45 million on tax money. So they are sending two very valuable picks. Not getting good players. And spend 60 million more money this year with this trade. Yeah it is really good for gsw.


13.) 12 Sep 2020 14:56:15
Randles second year is only guaranteed for $4 mil. Wiggins is guaranteed for $31.6. In Year 3, Wiggins is paid $33.6. Randle is off the books. So yes, tell me again about luxury taxes?

And the reason for the salary difference in year one is turning the Iguodala $17.2 TPE $17.2 into a $16 mil player you can trade and aggregate. Hopefully you read my post today listing the quality players that TPE could become if you turn it into a tradable player. However, if you are saying that the Warriors were going to let that TPE go to waste and not use it, then I agree it would save them the $40 mil one-year sting. Do you really think that is their plan?

In the end, they are deciding whether they want to spend the future money on Wiggins for three years at $30, OR one year using the TPE (which they would likely do anyway), then a LOWER salary going forward with the TPE guy ($20 mil), Mitchell (rookie scale), If you are concerned about the tax, this is a better way to handle the future, and meanwhile improves the Warriors talent.


14.) 12 Sep 2020 15:08:21
Rkenne. Wiggins looks good scoring points and playing a position of need, but the guy has never had a positive BPM in any season. He is inefficient, plays poor defense, and that’s why his teams do worse whenever he is on the floor.

On the other hand, Mitchell Robinson helps a team. He has had a positive BPM in both his seasons, which is very unusual for a rookie.

Whatever production the Warriors get out of Randle and Ellington in Year One is gravy. Their real value is that they are expiring (well, Randle is owed $4 mil) while Wiggins is on the books for $65 million after they are gone, Losing the Wiggins salary allows GSW to afford to use the Iguodala TPE/ James Johnson without reeling in luxury taxes.


15.) 12 Sep 2020 15:53:31
Dont u understand? With your trade gsw salary will be 17 million higher and tax will be more than 40 million. Nearly 60 million for this year. So they can keep Wiggins and use 60 million to pay him next two years.


16.) 12 Sep 2020 18:02:11
Look buddy, I don’t think you understand my posts, and I’ve probably been doing cap/ lux projections for twenty years more than you have, But I will try to simplify it down even farther.

In Year One: If GSW does the trade, they add $17 mil in payroll. If GSW doesn’t do the trade, and USES the $17 mil Iguodala TPE (Which they will), they add $17 mil in payroll.

It’s the same thing. If you want to look at the trade and remove the Iguodala for Johnson piece to understand it better, that’s fine with me. I appreciate you emphasizing the lux tax, because many fan posters overlook it, but you would be talking about the same lux taxes on the same payroll.

In Year Two and Three: if GSW does the trade, they have a salary for the TPE guy, Randle and Ellington basically expire, and they pay Mitchell Robinson. Let’s say, $17, $4, $0 and $1.8, = $23 mil payroll

If they don’t do the trade they pay TPE Guy and Wiggins. $17 + $33 = $50 mil in payroll.

I don’t think GSW wants to pay repeater taxes on $50 mil, and a good part of the value of this deal is financial - getting off the last two years of Wiggins deal.


Slow down, read it through. You are not processing all the info. Cheers.


17.) 12 Sep 2020 18:24:11
Maybe there’s an even easier way to help you understand. Let’s make it a two part trade, and remove Johnson and the TPE completely until stage 2.

#2 > #8
2021 MIN 1st > Mitchell Robinson

However

Wiggins.


18.) 12 Sep 2020 19:22:14
I can understand you very well. wiggins is better than those nyk crap. 2 pick is better than 8. robinson doesn't worth top ten pick. gsw get nothing in this trade. nothing nothing nothing. they will be repeater tax team next even after your trade. because they will pay 110 million to curry thompson and green next year. not paying tax isn't an option for golden state. and I am not talking about next year buddy.

gsw send: 29,5 million

gsw take: 45,5 million.

16 million more salary this year and 40 million more tax this year.

how can u don't understand it is basic math.

tpe doesn't count on salary cap if you don't use it. open trade rules slary cap rules and read.


19.) 12 Sep 2020 20:43:55
Do you know what a trade exception is?


20.) 12 Sep 2020 20:52:43
I appreciate that you are concerned about lux taxes - it’s something too many internet posters don’t emphasize. But I don’t know how basic get with you. Apparently half my earlier post didn’t register, So I will try again.

If you understand what a TPE is, let’s just eliminate the part of the trade that contains the TPE for Johnson. Can you understand that, or did I lose you?

Ok, then the deal is Wiggins, #2, 2021 MIN 1st for #8, Robinson, Randle, Ellington. With me so far? For GSW:

#2 > #8
2021 MIN 1st > Robinson
But
Wiggins.


21.) 12 Sep 2020 20:58:29
And, I said that I believe it is nearly a sure thing that a championship contender like GSW does not use the Iguodala TPE, which they gave up assets to acquire

Either you didn’t read it, or didn’t understand it, but saying things like, “maybe you don’t understand basic math“, or “read the trade rules” is childish and insulting. For the record, the CBAFAQ that you are probably reading was written by Larry Coon, and I helped him improve a few sections, since I’ve known him for a decade.

Grow up.


22.) 12 Sep 2020 21:00:03
And I love your silly, “oh I’m not talking about (finances after) next year, ”

Guess what? The actual GSW front office is going to factor that in. You should realize that,


23.) 12 Sep 2020 21:39:05
Interesting note about this site for everyone. You can use a greater than sign >, but two less than signs will cut off your post.

Asdenam, your financial arguments are simply between not using the TPE, and using it. The Johnson contract (or whatever the single biggest expiring you can use it on), is simply using it more effectively. Personally, I think nearly everyone considers using the TPE to be a “done deal” for a championship contender, especially since GSW gave up assets to get that TPE.

It is foolish though to judge a trade and also ignore the financial impact Wiggins will have two and three years from now, especially if you are aware of the lux taxes. I feel like you just want to rile me up, which you succeeded at. Bravo.

And for the part that keeps getting cut off, I agree #2 and 2021 MIN 1st is worth more than #6 and Mitchell Robinson. However Wiggins is worth far less than expirings, and would take a major asset or two to move unless he suddenly becomes a positive player and on a cheaper contract. So far, in seven seasons, he’s only been negative, but you can always hope he suddenly turns it around.


24.) 13 Sep 2020 04:45:56
I didn't say they shouldn't use it. They should use it on good players not for this crap. İf they pay 110 million tax and giving 2 very valuable picks, they should get good players, not overpayed bench players.


 

 

18 Sep 2019 02:58:34
Small, but realistic?

MIN GETS: Kris Dunn
CHI GETS: $2.3 mil in savings, Treveon Graham and Tyrone Wallace (with around $1.3M of his contract guaranteed)


Even if they simply dumped Graham and Wallace, they take $2.35 mil off the books and open a roster spot. However the Bulls could use some wing depth, so they could take a flier. I think Dunn is dead money in CHI, and expect him to get no minutes. They paid Satoransky to start, Boylen loves Arcidiacono, and Coby White was the #7 pick and needs whatever minutes that are left.

MIN is shallow at PG if Teague or Napier get injured, and Rosas likes 25 year olds on one year contracts. They could sign some guy on the borderline of the NBA for a minimum contract, or pay a little more and get Dunn.

It comes down to MIN may use Dunn and CHI probably will not.

Shrink

1.) 18 Sep 2019 12:51:23
You can get someone after the training camp cuts that is probably just as good as Dunn for less than $2.3 mil.


 

 

27 Aug 2019 16:02:38
CHI GETS: Gorgui Dieng + MIN 2021 2nd

MIN GETS: Felicio + Kris Dunn (+ Kornett if CHI wanted in December?)

Why for CHI? Felicio ($8.2, $7.5) is unplayable dead weight, and with the signing of Satoransky and drafting Coby White (and Arcidiacono in the wings), Dunn ($5.4) looks like a waste of minutes and dollars. Zach LaVine played especially well with Dieng, particularly in DHO's. Dieng is also a hard worker and would also be a good locker mentor for Wendell Carter Jr and the surprising Gafford. If CHI wanted to include Kornett ($2.2, $2.3) in the deal, I think that would be OK for MIN.

Why for MIN? Rosas seems to be stressing a "1-center-1-ballhandler-3-wings" approach, and that Covington would play more PF, so that might mean less time for Dieng ($16.2, $17.3). He also added Noah Vonleh and Jordan Bell as well, and Towns plays a lot of minutes and is ridiculously healthy. Dunn isn't worth much, but he could be PG insurance, behind Teague (who we just found out, was dinged up all last year), and then MIN only has Shabazz Napier. This saves MIN $10 mil next season - more if they end up stretching Felicio. This summer, Rosas' signings were basically giving opportunities to some uninspiring young players, and Dunn and Kornett might fit that.

Shrink

 

 

10 Sep 2017 03:33:11
It's pretty boring for MIN fans right now. We only have one thing to trade - Cole Aldrich - or more accurately, some 2018 cap space. Aldrich's deal is $7.3 mil this year, and $6.95 mil next season, but only $2 mil is guaranteed. MIN will be over the cap, and likely under the lux next season, and will probably be willing to take on 2018 salary up to $12.3 mil in a two year deal. Most likely this will be at the deadline, but I'm curious which teams are potential trade partners who want 2018 CAP SPACE?

MIN was unwilling to give up the OKC 1st to get CJ Miles, so keep that in mind. They could use a swingman.

Aldrich for Shumpert?

Aldrich for Jared Dudley?

Aldrich for Garrett Temple?

Thoughts? Other ideas?

Shrink

1.) 10 Sep 2017 14:15:08
Keep in mind that Cole is completely useless, so Minny will have to either attach another asset to him to move him or take back a wing on a multi year deal. Even with a $2M buyout, that's $2M that some team is going to spend.

How about Cole for Lance Thomas from NY? Salaries are the same this year and next, and Knicks clear some cap space next year. Thomas doesn't offer a tonne, but he is a 40% career 3PT shooter, which Minny needs.


2.) 10 Sep 2017 14:59:10
Wolves are like Sixers -- tons of talent and a bright future. Just let things play themselves out, and if things don't work out think about some more changes.


 

 

30 Jul 2017 06:18:27
MIN GETS: Jared Dudley

PHX GETS: Cole Aldrich

Why for PHX? They clear cap space for next year. 2018 Free Agency looks like a place for bargains, as the free spending of 2016 and 2017 has limited the buyers. Aldrich's contract is $7.3 mil this year, and a TEAM option for $6.95 mil next year, with only $2 mil guaranteed. This saves PHX $2.7 mil this year, and $8 mil next season. Best of all, Aldrich can still play, and removes some of Len's leverage in his free agency negotiations.

Why for MIN? The addition of Jimmy Butler has made them a more win-now team, but they only have three swingmen on the roster - Butler, Wiggins, and Jamaal Crawford. Dudley not only fills a positional need, but the team also needs his three point shooting. He will be more useful than another center like Aldrich, and the Wolves have no other means to fill that gap other than the vet min. Finally, Dudley is overpaid at $10 mil this year, and next season, but MIN shouldn't mind. They won't be under the cap this year or next, and the two-year window matches when Taj, Crawford, and Jimmy's deals are all up.

Shrink

 

 

 

Shrink's talk posts with other poster's replies to Shrink's talk posts

 

28 Jul 2017 00:22:16
I think all these Irving trades are radically over-valueing the eventual return. When a team trades a star, they usually get 75 cents on the dollar, but Kyrie's return could be much lower because:

1. Lately win-now star returns have been even lower than 75 cents. The Warriors dominance has led to much smaller returns for Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Nerlen Noels, and Boogie Cousins.

2. Kyrie demanded a trade. This always lowers value.

3. Kyrie named four teams he wants to get traded to. If you are one of the other 25, you are probably only getting him for two years.

4. Kyrie was not happy on a championship level team. This must make GM's worried about a big offer, because he might become unhappy on yours.

5. Kyrie is a disinterested defender, he doesn't make his teammates better.

6. The PG market is extremely crowded right now.

7. He waited to announce this after teams have used most of their assets up, and made roster decisions.

8. CLE is constrained to make a deal now, since they don't want Kyrie making LeBron and his teammates uncomfortable on the first day of camp. Losing LeBron for nothing next year is more important than a smaller return for Kyrie.

9. CLE is constrained because their Dan Gilbert is far into the repeater tax.

10. CLE has an inexperienced new GM in Koby Altman. Worse, since Kyrie named four teams he wants to be traded to, Cavs teammates and free agents will watch Altman to see if he is a GM who looks out for his players' careers.

CLE GIVES: Kyrie
CLE GETS: Far less than expected

Shrink

1.) 28 Jul 2017 01:05:53
Irving is 25, signed for multiple years, is already a allstar, has proved to be one of the most clutch players in the league, is coming off the best year of his career, and the Cavs are willing to take back established talent. The Cavs will end up with a solid return.


2.) 28 Jul 2017 02:09:57
I see your points and I like them. This is why people need to understand that Cleveland will not receive full value for Irving.


3.) 28 Jul 2017 04:50:46
Also think Cleveland won't receive full value for a top 10 pg
Think Bledsoe and pick will be around the value.


4.) 28 Jul 2017 11:16:00
He's going to New Orleans and we aren't giving up Boogie or Davis.


5.) 28 Jul 2017 18:51:08
Good to see shrink back. And good to see he actually is explaining to cavs fans what they have been so keen on pointing out about Melo, PG, and all other all stars that make clear their intentions to not want to be with the team.

These proposals thinking the cavs will get something like bledsoe, jackson, bender and a pick is just hysterical.

Listen, bledsoe straight up for irving is fair. Like it or not, it is.

Possibly bledsoe has even more value. Similar stats, similar contract, exception is bledsoe plays defense.

Just stop it with the nonsense returns here.


6.) 29 Jul 2017 02:00:12
I agree for the most part. I think the timing of the trade request is what will hurt his value the most since teams are less flexible now and less likely to make a major move now that their teams are more or less set. The one thing Cavs have going in their favor is that Irving is only 25 and signed for two more years. This could potentially attract young/ rebuilding teams to go after him and make him the face of their franchise (what he is looking for) . With two years they have a year to sell him on staying then another year to actually sell him and get a little something back if it looks unlikely that he'll resign. For a team like Suns or Nuggets who have plenty of ammunition it may make sense for them to take this gamble on Irving who is one of the best offensive talents in the league (although admittedly doesn't give you much else) .


 

 

15 Jan 2016 16:00:33
Rank these four young prospects by TRADE VALUE:

Wiggins
Towns
Porzingas
2017 #1 pick (Simmons? )

Shrink

1.) 15 Jan 2016 17:45:26
Simmons (maybe its hype), Towns, KP/ Wiggins (don't know what to think about Wiggins, hopefully he becomes more P. George than D. Derozan; maybe at the moment I'd take Porzingis as safer pick for superstar)


2.) 15 Jan 2016 23:22:53
Towns
Simmons
Tied Wiggins and porzingas.


3.) 16 Jan 2016 00:08:33
1. Simmons
2. Towns
3. Porzingis
4. Wiggins.


 

 

10 Dec 2015 16:58:02
Darren Wolfson ‏@DWolfsonKSTP
By the way, heard the Nets and Lakers are two of the teams that like Shabazz. He has fans. But Milt is not moving him anytime soon. #twolves

He looks so good offensively and on the glass when he gets minutes, but lacks continuity with the team with Wiggins, LaVine, and Martin (37 PTS last night) in front of him.

Can somebody make an offer for the guy that would change the GM's mind and get him traded someplace where his career can grow? I like his effort, and I'm feeling sorry for the guy.

Shrink

1.) 11 Dec 2015 13:56:20
No one is going to make the offer you think he demands. Fact is you don't play him. You aren't going to get a prime offer because it's not taking away a necessary asset of your team. The problem is, you are so dillusional in your talent evaluation that until you get 2-3 1sts you won't think it's enough. Case in point, you barked up and down about how Martin is worth a 1st. Not based off performance. Not based off production. Based off you saying so. So until the wolves realize that everyone knows other teams values on their own assets and trades are based on that, no one will give the package dillusional fans such as yourself believe are warranted.


2.) 11 Dec 2015 19:25:51
By the ways, I also don't understand the statement that he looks so good on the glass. He is averaging 2 rebounds a game. Yes, he only plays 17 minutes a game, but last year he averaged only 22 minutes and was getting 4 rebounds a game. His performance thus far, while relatively efficient, doesn't warrant the type of package Minnesota's ownership wants. His play as a whole has been worse by far than last year. His steals, blocks, assists, rebounds are all significantly down. His turnovers and fouls are up. While it's true, he's averaging 17 minutes instead of 22, it doesn't explain why his numbers have declined to that extent.


 

 

 

Shrink's rumour replies

 

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14 Nov 2020 13:23:28
The Pistons were initially linked to loving LaMelo Ball, and they went and watched him work out a few days ago. I think Ball would help their attendance (when we get fans back in the stands), with flashy plays between the mistakes. Derrick Rose, the ex-young superstar, would be an ideal mentor for Ball, at least until he gets dealt before the trade deadline

And I have no worries that DET will lose games and get a high lottery pick when they give Ball the rock. Rookies are almost always bad, and I think Ball could be extremely bad his first year or two.

Shrink

 

 

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14 Nov 2020 13:16:16
It’s hard to know if any team really believes that the #1 pick will be a superstar, but this is a superstar haul for MIN.

Shrink

 

 

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13 Nov 2020 13:29:27
Horrible value for Harden, and a 1-for-6.

Shrink

 

 

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13 Nov 2020 13:28:32
Yes, this is laughable for value.

Also, MIN is already over-crowded for roster spots, and you want to do a 5-for-1?

Shrink

 

 

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13 Nov 2020 13:26:33
I think there are two tiers before you get to 7 (1-3, 4-6), so it should take something significant to get to the #1 spot. In this trade, DET a gives up something significant - maybe too much.

I think this comes down to what a GM thinks of Ball, of what he will become, and what it would mean to a franchise over the next four years for putting butts in the seats. I personally wouldn’t give this much if I was DET, but I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility. Maybe MIN throws something back, like Spellman, Okogie, or #33.

Shrink

 

 

 

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